What do you think colored mana might mean for crafting?

Nephele

Administrator
Staff member
Source: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/9038/is-colored-mana-still-a-thing/view/post_id/173462

Joppa said:

Just a bit of clarity here before speculation leads to unmet expectations :)

Currently, we're exploring some design directions for Colored Mana to play a significant role in the Crafting sphere. If we land on something we feel really good about, that's the aspect of Colored Mana you would see the soonest.

Regarding the Adventuring sphere, there have been a few directions we have considered/prototyped in the past that ultimately did not feel successful, being an additional layer of complexity that felt clunky and didn't harmonize with the Pantheon experience as a whole. So we're considering a different approach by using the Crafting system as the flagship incorporation of Colored Mana. If this proves successful, it could open up more clear paths on how we might incorporate Colored Mana into the Adventuring sphere more successfully.
 

Nephele

Administrator
Staff member
So, Neph's thoughts:

I have a poor understanding of the original concept of colored mana, but where my head wants to go is that different-colored mana represents different environmental influences. So red mana = fire, blue mana = water, and so on. You can think of elemental relationships in Final Fantasy terms (air/earth/water/fire/ice/lightning/dark/light) or in MTG terms (fire-lightning/light-protection-healing/nature-earth/magic-air-water/death).

So with that in mind, the obvious thing is that there would need to be some way to store and inject colored mana during the crafting process. This could be some sort of fuel component (like FFXI's and FFXIV's crystals) or maybe it's an aspect of the materials and components that are used. Either way, the color of mana used would influence the result in some way. So, if you were making an armor piece, the colored mana might influence the resist boosts that the armor piece winds up with. If you were making a weapon, using enough colored mana might imbue the weapon with a special property such as a bane bonus or even (for very strong weapons) a damage proc.

These are just my initial thoughts. I'd love to hear what everyone else thinks.
 

Trasak

Apprentice
Staff member
Staff Writer
Yah Joppa’s post made my brain go “Whaaatt!” and then ran off down dozens of possible directions that did not fit any of my original guesses of how crafting would work.

I see two primary ways this could be harnessed.

1st: Like you said it could have something to do with the elemental wheel. Either the mana used in creating the item effects the item or specific mini-game moves work differently when they are fueled with different elements. The location of crafting, gear worn and consumables could all contribute to how much of each elemental mana you had on hand while crafting. The only issue I see with this is that mana focuses on the end product results and not necessarily on the crafting process, though it still could affect your mini-game move choices.

2nd: The colored mana represents different mental resources used while crafting: If you broke down mental energies into Concentration, Creativity, Patience, and Effort/Focus you could then have the mini-game abilities use differing amounts of these resources. Through the crafting process you manage your different mental energies by choosing abilities that consume different colors of mana. One response may burn a lot of concentration and another may burn a lot of patience. The key is to not run out of the mental energy that you need to use to respond to a possible failure event. This could include taking into account different regeneration rates both while in the mini-game and while out of it.

This could also be where group crafting comes in. Say to make an absolutely top end item you need to use creative improvement power 10 times but one crafter only has enough creativity to do it 8 times and many of the responses also need some creativity. One person focuses on getting the quality up while the other contributes a little to the quality but otherwise makes sure the process does not fail.

I hope Joppa and Ceythos are able to open up a little bit more on how everything works together and the overall direction of crafting.
 

Barin999

Journeyman
If I understand it correctly;
The colored mana in the adventure class aspect so far has been to show the "energetic pool" that the certain class has and to see it regenerate. So what I've gathered from that is, that they want to give each class their own colour for their specific "energy pool".
When they want to implement that into crafting a few things come to mind;
1. Each crafting class with their own colored pool? Either the pool icon needs to be different from the adventure one, or the colours again need to differ from all the other classes. The last one sounds like problematic for the future.

2. Crafters get their own "energy pool" to regenerate and use while crafting. That's nice touch, but I'll have to see how that works/looks ingame. This would mean crafters could be able to rest while crafting to get their pool back up or regen outside the crafting process. Or even more complicated; crafters can regenerate "energy" by using crafting related abilities.

3. If we're talking about class specific pools and abilities to regenerate while crafting. It can easely be implemented. So far games just used "power" to be consumed while crafting or nothing at all. I would think it's a matter of enscripting things to link it to "another source of energy" outside your main mana and health bar.

4. Having crafting abilities that incorporate energy cost and regeneration is a nice touch and makes sense to me. One does not really have to think hard to combine your basic crafting abilities with a possible manacost/regen.

5. It could be simplified. If the game transforms the mana pool from your adventureclass into the energy pool during crafting. So not much would have to change. Just some names and/or colours. So interacting with crafting station would just show your mana pool with a different skin on it.

6. I don't see the need to invent a new energy source. @Trasak You'll most likely have crafting abilities already, so why not just add another stat to it. Namely energycost/regen. They are welcome to try of course, I'ld be very curious how that feels like ingame. But it just seems easier/more convenient to use the combo approach.

7. It makes sense to me that they are first going try it out on crafters. If the cosmetic effect is too distracting or not Obvious enough, it will be have the same effect in combat but with more impact. It could indeed ruin the entire experience. Will it be a glass orb, a horizontal health bar, an increased 'aura' coloration (like in some games when you're dieing) or a beautifully designed class specific icon that fills up in colour. Many options, I hope they amaze me with their choice.!

I'm pretty sure they were not talking about the imbuement of items that could render colours to that item. That seems like an entirely different topic.
To have an item showing a colour, by which you can see that it's been imbued by a blacksmith because of that colour. Would be a nice thing, but would stretch it too far for me, personally. It makes it very complex cosmethicwise and we'll soon have 100's of rainbowcoloured players running about. If anything, I'ld say; just keep it to crafter names, no colours.
 

Snoochy

Novice
yeah, i'm not sure about this either. there are only 3(+1 edit) things i can think of on my end.

1: each class will have a different type of mana and it will promote groups crafting together to possibly affect the grade of a produced item?

2: when you are in certain areas of the word you collect mana from the area passively, like your tapping into a mana leyline of a certain element and that will work as a resource, that way someone can buy 5,000 copper ore from the market and overload the market with a single type high grade product just to level thier crafting skill, kind of like Skyrim and making 10,000 Iron Daggers so that you can make Dragon Bone Armor.

3: a mini-game would recharge colors of this mana or create the mana accordingly. maybe something similar to the EQ version of "Bejeweled" they had while waiting on ready-checks. and as the mana types fill the required amounts, the crafting completes. obviously doesn't have to be a game like Bejeweled, just a notable example.

4: edit: While typing a post about Group/guild crafting, i realized mana "color" might be affected by the specialization you choose and would represent an element. so say you want to make a sword. as a blacksmith you have 1 Red Mana per level (lets say you a lvl 50 blacksmith so 50 mana), but to make the handle High Quality you'd need 10 green mana from a carpenter. and to make it mastercrafted and deal increased damage to vampire/werewolves, instead of being just a normal high quality sword, you'd need 30 white mana from a Jewelcrafter. To me this sounds the more realistic and would also promote the Inter-dependency without exactly being a requirement.
 
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Barin999

Journeyman
2: when you are in certain areas of the word you collect mana from the area passively, like your tapping into a mana leyline of a certain element and that will work as a resource.
That seems a lot of lore work to be written in. I do get the gest of it, and it sounds like a nice idea for a quest or rare item. That sounds doable even without the need for "mana's."

4: edit: While typing a post about Group/guild crafting, i realized mana "color" might be affected by the specialization you choose and would represent an element. so say you want to make a sword. as a blacksmith you have 1 Red Mana per level (lets say you a lvl 50 blacksmith so 50 mana), but to make the handle High Quality you'd need 10 green mana from a carpenter. and to make it mastercrafted and deal increased damage to vampire/werewolves, instead of being just a normal high quality sword, you'd need 30 white mana from a Jewelcrafter. To me this sounds the more realistic and would also promote the Inter-dependency without exactly being a requirement.
So what are you saying here? Crafters can produce manas? And those manas can be traded/commissioned so that a single crafter can gather mana (colours) from different crafters and make himself a Mastercrafted Undead Sword?
 

Barin999

Journeyman
1: each class will have a different type of mana and it will promote groups crafting together to possibly affect the grade of a produced item?
If I may continue on your idea here...
It's a big change but: perhaps crafted items have a requirement of mana's. And during the proces of creating an item, the crafter has the opportunity to "gain" mana. For example to make a porccasserole, you don't need a mana per se. But if you manage to "earn" one during the cooking process, that dish has better stats. So a basic pork casserole gives 5STA regen. A pork casserole with 1 mana would give 6STA regen.
In fact those "optional" mana investments, could be greyed out in the recipe. This way the crafter can see at the start if this is a recipe where he can put a mana in and how many mana's that would be.
A porkcasserole might allow for 1 manapoint. And the crafter can manage that within the time it takes him to make that dish.
An advanced recipe: blood infused mint tea would require 2 mana's. (1 from an alchemist and 1 from a provisioner). So the crafters are required to work together to finish this product. Depending on the further design of the craftergame, that could be done simultaniously or each at its own time. The last option would just be a matter of passing a recipe on to the next or having a section of that recipe commissioned, so the goods don't change ownership.
For an advanced provisioner recipe: another example Ale braised pork shank. Here either two provisioners can work on it together or one provisioner can solo it in multiple craft sessions. Each time the mana's will have to be earned etc.

Or you can stick to the simplified version (I believe you were aiming for this one? @Snoochy) Just being in group with different crafters would provide crafters with a bonus? So each crafter has it's own mana thing. But when they group up, things get boosted. So perhaps 1 crafter working the minigame has 100+ progression. 2 crafters in group would have 110+. 3 crafters +120, etc.
I think that could go well with the suggestion of making complex recipes. So it already requires multiple crafters to work towards 1 finished product. But if they do it in group… "the mana-system" will give them boosts so it wouldn't take as long compared to crafters working independently but still on that 1 product. In practice; 1 end product requires 3 different class crafters. If each of them works solo on that project the combined time investment would be 30 minutes. However, when they team up for it, due to the bonuses...the combined time investment now is reduced down to 10-15 minutes. A lot faster, but because it's a complex recipe, it still takes a meaningful amount of time to finish the product. That seems like a good motivator to team up as crafters and could include the mana design.

To return to your first idea. That could work as well. So perhaps the mana of a crafter...can be an "influence" on other crafters in group. I'll try and use the sword as example here: A pristine maxed out sword would give 10 damage as stat. The stat of this item can be achieved by one crafter who has enough focuspoints/skill points at his given crafting level 10. If that crafter would join up with another crafter and craft that same sword, he might get a boost in focuspoints/skill points temporarly during that crafting session. So when finishing his sword, due to improved points, the sword now has 11 damage. The more crafters are in group, the more points are shared or boosted and the higher the stats of his product become.

What do you think about those?
 

DOOMCHUG

Novice
Crafting colored mana would be an awesome idea for magical ammunition and it would further solidify the crafting role. Along with providing a more unique aesthetic, you could also have each colored mana do various different things mechanically, for example, green mana will increase healing spells or have damaging spells heal, black mana that can leach health, red mana can strengthen AOEs or have an AOE effect on single target spells, and blue mana slow or even freeze targets. I would even suggest having it be required for certain spells. Maybe you can have different qualities of colored mana that deal more damage or heal more etc. Though it is important for these magic classes to have spells that do not require colored mana in case you run out and therefore sitting useless. Another cool idea is to have colored mana harvestable from magical monsters creating new revenue opportunities for players. It would also be awesome if you could use the colored mana to enchant certain items in the game with different attributes.
 
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