Downtime with a drizzle of crafting

The game is aiming towards functional downtime.
Where players again start talking to one another and discuss strategies, spells or just the occasional bonding chats.
For some this feels like a blank spot.
The downtime is based on recovery of health or mana and possibly switching out gears. The last one will not be as often and won't take up much time either.
So it comes down to spell users that need the time between fights to regain mana. As health might be boosted more quickly by consumables and spells.
Some adventurers might experience this downtime as; Yeah, we're just waiting on the mage to recover and we can continue killing.
In this modern age, people quickly turn to their cellphone or 2nd screen to play other games, or occupy themselves with other media. And in fact would not be so inclined/intrinsically motivated to converse with their fellow groupmembers.

Let's try and find ways so that monks, dire lords, rogues and other raw fighters, can fill up their downtime similar to spellcasters. Give them a "small thing" to do/manage while they are waiting.
While they are managing this small class specific thing, it will more easely trigger them to keep their focus within the game and in their group/guild. There is no way to divert those hard core cell Phone users or those people that Always have two monitors running. But perhaps we can find ways to "keep their interest" to the Pantheon game while there is such a downtime. This again is in the scenario where those players are not inclined to keep up conversation or start one, if there is no reason to. (Which is something you commonly see in other mmo's.)

For example, swords might get cleaned between fights, bandages or fistwraps tightened..

So, with that in mind, let's see what kind of micro-crafts can be suggested for all classes.
Or if you think that it's a big nono, you can say that as wel.
 
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I'ld suggest, temporary buffs for each class specific.
So I'm thinking of buffs that increase abilities for a short period of time, but long enough to be useful.
It should require some "few-clicks"-management, nothing overly complicated, something they can do while talking.
The goal is to keep players active in this game while recovering/doing some downtime between battles.

Perhaps this could be an incremental build-up.
Example: In other games, weapon effects are triggered and can be incrementally build-up during fighting.
Now, let's take this mechanic and place it into a sequence to be used out of combat. But it builds up duration.
So, these are abilities, that do not need to be on the primary hotbar, could be worked from the knowledgebook or small window. IMPORTANT: this mechanic or specific book used to trigger this boost, can not be actively used during battle. So it only is 'manageable' OUT of combat.
When a player clicks the sequence, they get a boost. Now if they do that a couple of times, or if they can maintain the cadance..the boost will last longer. So one completed sequence could give a 5 minute boost. If they continue this mechanic during this downtime, the boost will be active for 6-7-8-9 minutes.

We already know that fights are going to take longer, how much longer, will have to be up to the dev's.
I think, it could work. It keeps people activated, if they want to. If they want to just sit and chat, that's possible too. It's a boost, but not a gamechanger.

Imagine it as streching before a long run. The player is preparing his character for a fight. And he's using class specific 'abilities/moves' to do so.

All boosts, are temporary and if the mechanic is not maintained it will start counting down from the moment the player has stopped this mechanic. The duration of the boost is for all players the same. So at first it's 5 minutes. As they continue, it will be more. Ones in combat, they can not engage in the mechanic and the boost that they have built up will start to count down.
Important: This mechanic and related 'abilities' do not consume any mana or other resource.

The aim is that the effect runs out and the maximum amount for the boost is limited. Up to.. 15 minutes or so. This could be designed so it allows for a boost to be active for several mobs, depending on the rate of killingmobs ofc. So it's not meant to last for an entire cave-run. The limit to max amount of boost, is to prevent players from sitting around half a day building up this boost and going on a half a day killingspree after.
The mechanic: a circular mechanic is an option or a build up one.
Abilities can not be pushed all at the same time, nor can they be pushed in a fast sequence. So it might have a cooldown before one could click another ability.
The ability window closes on itself when combat is initiated. So it's not after the player has completed the sequence they were working on. It could also be blocked from use as combat start and there is an option for players to close the window during or after combat.

*Circular mechanic: A hotkey opens up a small window with the specific abilities. These can light up at random or one of them needs to be clicked within seconds each time. As the player clicks the ability, it's character will display an emotion. When 3 or 4 abilities have been clicked, the first boost is gained. This could be within a fixed timer and the timer will reset so that the player can start a second round and prolong it's boost.
*Build-up mechanic: A hotkey opens up a small window with the specific abilities. The player start off by pressing 3-4 abilities to get the boost. But to prolong their boost, they'll need to use more then 4 abilities. So after the first boost is gained, the boost will be prolonged when they push 8 abilities, the boost will be prolonged a third time when they press 12 abilities.

Paladin: As they stand out of combat, they can ("open a book" (graphically) ?? and) start praying. Their praise provides them with an Increase of Wrathgeneration.
Direlord: The % Essence generated by their damage is increased.
Warrior: Increase in Resilience generation. They might motion some shield block/bash actions combined with a bash of their weapon on their shield.
Monk: Increase of Chakra generation. Using his baton, they "open up" all their channels so that chakra can flow more easely. Which comes down to, pressing abilities out of combat, with fightingmoves in mid air as result.
Rogue: Increases the base pool of Endurance. They could make their weapons more effective by cleaning or sharpening them.
Ranger: Increase in Momentum generation.

Paladins might start a prayer. Monks might make some tai-chi moves, or on the spot kicks and punches in the air. Rogues might crouch around the area, direlords might get pumped up by 'scarring' themselves, etc.
You see, it doesn't have to be the traditional, wetstone or putting on poisons approach.
 
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How does this tie in with crafting?

Items with ceremonial usage!!

Another way of saying that character are gaining a boost through "fluffy actions" is to state that they are preforming a ceremony/ritual.
Each one, will require some kind of ceremonial item, scroll, shield, rune, tablet...

This is after all an option within the game. But if a warrior would have such a ceremonial shield made, they might use it then. It will of course have no actual stats. It's there to provide the warrior to act out this ceremony.
Another sideline would be that all ceremonies or rituals need to be learned, this through spells, scribes, teachers. This could again ask for 'educative material' but perhaps that is too far fetched...
In any case, scribes, alchemist or jewelers or sculptors can provide these ceremonial items that can be learned. Ones the warrior has learned them all, they can preform their warrior rituals out of combat. With the boost as a result.

Yes, it will require players to have this ceremonial item with them in their inventory. But again, it's a choice they have to make. OR, after learning the entire ceremony, the items shown during the ceremony would be just graphical and not an actual ingame item.

It's a small item thing for crafter, but it could be a huge thing to keep the downtime fun or useful for the less communicative-none caster- player. It could keep them occupied within the game.
And that's the whole point of this idea here.
 
I think Pantheon would benefit from keeping players attention during downtime as long as the methods were appropriate.

When a player clicks the sequence, they get a boost. Now if they do that a couple of times, or if they can maintain the cadance..the boost will last longer.
Good way of keeping their hands busy, though at the far end we wouldn't want the player to be so busy they can't talk.

Maybe a way of keeping player attention would be in their responsibility to maintain the security of their immediate surroundings. For example, restoring a torch's fuel, watching for patrols, etc. Maybe the more dangerous the area, the more things the players have to stay mindful of.

While I like the idea of maintenance, for example keeping weapons sharp, I think they should attempt to be somewhat engaging. Hitting a sequence of keys seems too engaging, keeping a torch bright seems better because it drastically affects the environment and indirectly affects other aspects of the players' experiences.
 
While I like the idea of maintenance, for example keeping weapons sharp, I think they should attempt to be somewhat engaging. Hitting a sequence of keys seems too engaging, keeping a torch bright seems better because it drastically affects the environment and indirectly affects other aspects of the players' experiences.
Your reply got me thinking a bit more.
How about: A makeshift recipe for all crafters, which allows them to make fires.
Not every member in the group has to be a crafter and the recipe itself could be very early on in leveling a crafter.
Perhaps even in a survival skill, questline where crafters learn to harvest, construct and build fires.
The reason why its for all crafters is pretty simple, it should not be a rare thing, it's a common thing and easy to get. So there is a high chance at least one member of the group can start a fire.

The fire is very small and has little effect. BUT it has a positive effect on regen of ANY kind of mana- or healthpool. And effects all groupmembers within range of the fire.
The duration of this "starterfire" is quite short and only effect OUT of COMBAT regen. So you can not drag mobs near the fire for the extra boost.
Graphic effect: small fire is perhaps more smoke then fire and a bigger fire might have less smoke, more ilumination and flames.
Now throughout the world there is dead wood, debris that is draggable.
Scenario: Fight is over, mana has to be regained. A crafter in the group has starter a makeshift fire. The regen is boosted for 1 tick/sec. The mage sits down to rest/meditate. The warrior walks around and finds a piece of dead wood. He can drag it (click and hold) onto the fireplace. The fireplace will grow for a period of time. A bigger fire means a bigger boost: it's now 2ticks/sec. The bigger fire is active using 1 log of dead wood. Then it resumes it's smaller appearance and goes back to 1tick/sec. Another piece of wood or debris can be put onto the fire now. The scouts or warriors can go look in the proximity of the fire/and mage for another piece to add to the fire.


Multiple scenario's are possible here. Multiple logs can be placed on the fire, the duration of the boost can be prolonged,..
Possible downside if the dev's are up for it... A fire that is too big or burning for too long, might attract enemies!
NOTE: The pieces of dead wood or debris, CAN NOT be put into your inventory. So DRAG ONLY. This allows the player to look for things to put into the starter fire, from the area where they are at that very moment. It would stimulate exploration and possibly trigger any Perception pings.

Additional bonus effect. It would look very nice in the dark when you venture out in the world and you spot a fireplace. You know there is a group up ahead. And walking through a busy area, you might spot fireplaces here and there. Which is a nice community sensation, I'ld say.
 
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The skill or fireplace recipe can be upgraded as levels scale up or as new content is being released.
So the crafters can learn more related or similar recipes as they level up as wel.
Which could make sense. New resources might lead up to a slight alteration of the base recipe.

I wouldn't make it so that the fireplaces can stack. So that it's not useful that all groupmembers start a fire, the boost will not multiply by doing so. This way, you divide the different things to do when out of combat and meditating until next fight.
Again, this is in case that players are not inclined to converse with one another or just redirect their attention to stuff outside the game.
If you are actually having a good chat with you groupmembers, starting a fire and putting on a log ones in a while, would not be so distracting, but you can get a slight ingame boost for this minor interaction with your environment.
It allows for players to be active in a way that is within reach of their group, beneficial for the group (as mana is refilled quicker) and still be within "earshot" to discuss upcoming strategies or engage in small talk with the group.
 

Khaleesi

Apprentice
Staff member
Staff Writer
the survivalist crowd could certainly get a kick out of some of these ideas - especially security.

Maybe a provisioner could even fire up something to pass to the fighter who needs endurance - but in turn, would need some magic material that a caster built up during battle.

A fighter, however, may have ended up with a physical material from the battles that an alchemist can repurpose into something that the casters can use for mana regen.

In this way, each class could be creating a reserve of materials that another would need during these breaks.

Also important here is the integrated voice chat system.
 

Trasak

Apprentice
Staff member
Staff Writer
I see the point of your idea Barin and agree that all classes should have roughly the same amount of character maintenance between encounters but ultimately I think sitting down to meditate between fights is a flawed concept. Slow paced and strategic combat is one thing but forced down time due to slow regen mechanics out of combat is an unfun restriction that does not improve game play. Players will do everything in their power to remove or reduce this time so why even bother to include it.

I would rather see different stances and tactics that encourage active resource management during fights based on the difficulty of the encounter and an over all lower number of casts per mana bar and no or low mana cost actions to take during endurance fights. Each class should need to reset between each encounter so that adds can be considered quite dangerous or force players to switch from speed tactics to endurance tactics.

This can be done through a combination of resource regeneration and abilities that can only be used a limited number of times before taking a short rest to reset their counters. This short rest would be the time where players can rearrange their tactical combat bar for which abilities they want available in the next fight as well as any gear switches. In this short rest period all combat resources should fully refresh for all classes. If you are forced back into combat before your short rest is completed then all of your changes are canceled and only your in combat regeneration would have been applied. This could be a case where the tank jumps up to hold off an unexpected add while the other players finish their short rest first before joining.
 
If you are actually having a good chat with you groupmembers, starting a fire and putting on a log ones in a while, would not be so distracting, but you can get a slight ingame boost for this minor interaction with your environment.
I really like your idea of fires, @Barin999.
Maybe a provisioner could even fire up something to pass to the fighter who needs endurance - but in turn, would need some magic material that a caster built up during battle.
I like the idea of added interdependence, @Khaleesi, along with the fire system in which any individual is capable of.

I see the point of your idea Barin and agree that all classes should have roughly the same amount of character maintenance between encounters but ultimately I think sitting down to meditate between fights is a flawed concept. Slow paced and strategic combat is one thing but forced down time due to slow regen mechanics out of combat is an unfun restriction that does not improve game play.
If down time is not fun for you, I do not think that makes it a flawed system. From the perspective of the Pantheon developers, they want to enforce the downtime between fights to open up opportunities for different kinds of conversation and player interaction.

To imagine what the different kinds of conversations might be, I think of the difference between communication in fast paced shooting games and communication when golfers are traveling between courses. In that comparison there definitely is a difference in how people speak, and what they talk about, and it is easy to imagine how that difference may impact the general 'mood' of the game. In that way, I think of enforcing downtime as a potentially valuable tool. And, for me, I think it could be fun.
 

Trasak

Apprentice
Staff member
Staff Writer
If down time is not fun for you, I do not think that makes it a flawed system. From the perspective of the Pantheon developers, they want to enforce the downtime between fights to open up opportunities for different kinds of conversation and player interaction.
There will be plenty of down time built into the game already during travel, waiting for spawns, waiting on pulls and waiting to fill groups and waiting . . . and waiting . . . you get the picture there will already be a lot of down time built into the game and it does not need to be built into the combat systems.

I also think that the developers are being naive if they think modern gamers will just decide to talk to each other and forge bonds of friendship over a half filled mana bar. There will be a few old timers with rose tinted glasses that will defend it as the holy grail of game design but the modern gamer does require a much higher level of engagement. Sitting around and waiting all the time is going to bore a lot of people out of subscribing that would otherwise be interested in the over all mechanics and world.

I would be much more interested in an innovative voice chat system that accurately did a voice to text then a text to voice using pre created voices appropriate to the race/sex of the character. That way we would not need to deal with many of the terrible parts of voice chat while still being able to interact while adventuring. Having typing be the only real way to communicate is very limiting and is the only reason that down time is considered positive as typing and especially reading while fighting is often very hard.
 
Slow paced and strategic combat is one thing but forced down time due to slow regen mechanics out of combat is an unfun restriction that does not improve game play. Players will do everything in their power to remove or reduce this time so why even bother to include it.

I would rather see different stances and tactics that encourage active resource management during fights based on the difficulty of the encounter and an over all lower number of casts per mana bar and no or low mana cost actions to take during endurance fights. Each class should need to reset between each encounter so that adds can be considered quite dangerous or force players to switch from speed tactics to endurance tactics.
Alright, I see where you're getting at.
Well first of all, I was just trying to find a way for the aspect of crafters to become useful during those strategic moments.
But, I'll divert from the main topic here to reply to your suggestion:
There are designs where classes tend to "heat up" during battle to the point where it is necessary for them to cool down again. Before they can use certain abilities. This design, could be a way to create a moment where all classes need to sit down and recuperate. For some that might be regaining mana or other pools, while others will need to cool down or regain their momentum or inner peace/focus.
When you think about the classes they have so far, this approach is within reach to that balance for all classes.
Dire lords might need time to get their bloodflow running stably for example.

The open question still remains though, do you see crafting being a useful factor in this moment of strategizing or not at all?
 
the survivalist crowd could certainly get a kick out of some of these ideas - especially security.

Maybe a provisioner could even fire up something to pass to the fighter who needs endurance - but in turn, would need some magic material that a caster built up during battle.

A fighter, however, may have ended up with a physical material from the battles that an alchemist can repurpose into something that the casters can use for mana regen.

In this way, each class could be creating a reserve of materials that another would need during these breaks.

Also important here is the integrated voice chat system.
It's difficult to think of a new game without some sort of omnipresent voice chat system. I would find it very strange if Pantheon was to go without one.

Could you elaborate on your suggestion with the fighter and his physical material? Why did he get it, where did it come from, trade, no-trade, temporary? What kind of recipes did you have in mind?

I do believe we had a chat discussing portable crafting kits..
https://www.pantheoncrafters.com/threads/chef-brewer.96/
 

Khaleesi

Apprentice
Staff member
Staff Writer
@Barin999 The material could take any name, as the process was refined - maybe a "shard of battle" or an "remnant of war." Something, certainly tradable, just as the caster's physical "focus of endurance" or "essence of battle" would be.

The provisioner could process the caster's material for the fighters and the scribe could process the fighter's remnants for the casters.

It would not be a necessary item for regeneration, but would help it go faster.
 
@Barin999 The material could take any name, as the process was refined - maybe a "shard of battle" or an "remnant of war." Something, certainly tradable, just as the caster's physical "focus of endurance" or "essence of battle" would be.

The provisioner could process the caster's material for the fighters and the scribe could process the fighter's remnants for the casters.

It would not be a necessary item for regeneration, but would help it go faster.
So how does the fighter obtain these shards ? Is that during battle? Would it be no-trade or class specific or just a result from a lootingsystem where everyone in the group is able to get it?
Would it be a required for a fighter to loot this shard and then turn it in at a crafter? Perhaps by means of commissioning? Or how do you see that working out ?
 

Khaleesi

Apprentice
Staff member
Staff Writer
It's a shard, maybe a splinter from an opponent's axe, the bent and broken tip of a dirk, an ogre's ear - some physical 'souvenir.'

I don't mean several different discrete in game items, but just one, which would physically appear in the fighter's inventory and stack. It could then be traded and used as the necessary ingredient for a scribe to imbue into something new and magical to then give to the caster.
 
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