Crafter's Roundtable: Tack and Harness

Nephele

Administrator
Staff member
This week's crafter's roundtable is all about mounts, with a side of travel! Just like always, the point of this discussion is to get people talking, so there's no wrong answers here. To help spur the discussion, we've gone ahead and rounded up some responses from the Pantheon Crafters staff here.

The Question:

Recently there's been a discussion about travel time and mounts on the Pantheon forums. Lots of ideas have been put forth about how mounts could potentially be implemented in Pantheon, or whether they should.

Our question though is this: If mounts are implemented in Pantheon, how do you see the game's crafting and gathering system interacting with them? Should the systems be completely separate, or should crafters and gatherers be generating supplies that are related to mounts and travel in the game? And if so, how far should things go?

As a bonus question (and yes, this is a new thing we're doing each time now), how often do you feel that crafters should have to travel in-game (as part of crafting)? Should it be a regular occurrence, or only occasionally?


Here's what the website staff had to say on the topic. Give it a read, and then tell us your own thoughts in a reply!

Autherial said:

On the premise that horses are in game, I would like to be able to craft saddles barding stirrups horse shoes etc. With all the expected stats, speed turning radius etc. I think traveling for crafter's would be fun. For me it helps the role play aspect of the profession. Traveling to Nephele's shop to pick up some Elven Steel so I can make some swords , then off to Crommulent for the leather to craft the hilt and sling.


Khaleesi said:

@Autherial , the stat bonuses to craft saddlery and horseshoes, whips and harnesses would be a great addition to both the crafting community and all who need to travel.

I'm looking forward to traveling being an essential part of advancing one's career and proficiency at their chosen trade. Certainly, if you want to work metal in the old Dwarven methods, you better be ready to travel and seek an apprenticeship with the Old Masters.

Gathering is another aspect entirely. We have had some discussion in the past about the potential for work horses and donkeys, possibly with carts. A salvager and gatherer what you want to have the saddlebag room to store for each Goods and possibly a cart to haul back wood.

If we get to travel to inns to supply goods, furnishings, and maintenance materials, then a donkey and cart may take longer than walking, but would be more efficient in the long run.

Who knows, maybe a passerby will need something that we packed along and be willing to pay a little more for the convenience.


Trasak said:

I am going to come at this from a slightly different direction, I know big surprise right?

Mounts, vehicles, movement speed, encumbrance, bag space, item slot size and item weight could all combine into a very interesting system with how it affects trade skills and harvesting.

If VR is unwilling/uninterested in switching to a volume based inventory rather than a slot based inventory then I hope that they still take the time to assign items a reasonable item size and have it affect bag types. The items could be tiny (1 cubic centimeter), small (16 cm^3, 4 cm side), medium (256 cm^3, 16 cm side [~6” cube]), large (4096 cm^3, 64 cm side [~2ft box]), giant (16777216 cm^3, 16.8 cubic meters, 2.56 meter side [~8ft box])

The idea is that up to 16 objects of once size can fit in the slot once size larger. Smaller bags will then be able to fit inside of larger bags to give you these expanded slots but until you have the smaller bags your items still take up the slots. There could also be bags two sizes larger than the objects that can go into it with up to 256 item slots that are organize-able. I should also say that the 16:1 ratio is the top quality bags with no weight reduction. Weight reduction enchantments reduce the space inside the bag as do lower quality bag construction materials and techniques with the worst ratio being 4:1.

Two more key points will be required to make this work. First is nothing stacks, ever. An item is an item and always will be though most formerly stacking items will be tiny items of negligible weight. Next is that the players inventory is 8 large sized slots that cannot contain bags with anything in them and one primary backpack slot that can equip a large sized container. Special note that there may be magical backpacks that have large slots in them rather than just medium slots.

Now to the actual question, if the above system is put into place then players will be very limited on the number of large items they can move in their own inventory and will be incapable of moving giant items on their own. What mounts could add in addition to movement speed is both more large size inventory slots with possible bag slots as well as added carrying capacity. This way a wizard with super low strength could still go mine. Vehicles could take this one step further and allow the loading and transport of giant items and a large number of large items but they would also be as slow as player walking speed.

Harvesting of minerals and lumber would both involve collecting large numbers of large items with relatively high weights as well as the occasional giant item. When going out to harvest you will need to have some way to bring the ore back to the smelter or logs to the saw mill. If/when housing and ship building become a thing in Pantheon then delivery of furniture and large prefabricated building materials will require a heavy wagon to move the objects from the workshops to the desired locations.

Additionally if a player has bought many large storage slots in a local bank and they want to move everything to a different location then they will need to pay to have it moved by NPCs or rent a wagon and drive it themselves. There could be an entire style of play based on running these caravans from one place to another.

All players, mounts and vehicles will have light, medium, heavy and maximum encumbrances. Maximum movement speed will be restricted any time anything is over light encumbrance. This means you could get to a location magically faster if you have little in your inventory but once loaded up the magic will cease to work and you will be restricted to natural movement speeds. This will limit the influx of a massive amount of raw materials which will also support a time intensive rather than quantity of material intensive crafting process.

This also can add an interesting PVE component to harvesting as mounts and vehicles could have set HP values and if killed/destroyed will drop everything on the ground and they could not be unsummoned if they have anything in their inventory.

Lastly I would like to see the detection range of harvestable materials, and possibly all perception flags, be inversely proportional to your current speed. For reference at your natural walking speed of 3 mph your perception range might be as far as 50ft but on a horse sprinting at 50 mph your detection range is basically turned off unless you touch it. I think this will do a lot to support the journey not the destination concept of Pantheon.


Nephele said:

So, starting with mounts - at a basic level, I would like to see crafters able to craft equipment for mounts much like @Autherial suggested. Saddles, saddlebags, horseshoes, barding, feed bags, etc. I also somewhat agree with @Trasak that mounts should be useful for more than simply getting from place to place faster. If travel and encumbrance are meaningful enough, I absolutely love the idea of having to do something like drive a wagon from place to place when you need to move a lot of stuff! That would be very cool to see if it could be implemented well.

I feel like crafters should absolutely play a role in terms of outfitting and equipping these mounts/vehicles (and building the vehicles). At launch, that might just be simple horses and pack mules. Longer-term though, I'd love to see carts and wagons, boats and ships. - and I'd love to see those be collaborative crafting projects, similar to how ships in Vanguard were constructed. Imagine, if you will, working with your guild to build a new outpost somewhere out in the world. It's relatively far from any nearby city, so your first step (once you've secured the land) is to build a few wagons or ships to transport all the materials for the guild hall to the site. Then you can load up those wagons or ships with the bricks, planks, nails, and so on that you need, and transport them out there to get started. When we talk about housing and player cities that we hope to see in Pantheon post-launch, part of that experience that I envision is the idea of people loading up covered wagons and heading out into the frontier to build a new home. I think if it could be done well and in a way that fits in with the rest of the world, that would really help turn housing from just being a convenience into being an additional sphere of gameplay. And to bring it full circle, that would also enable players to do things like set up ranches and actually breed and train mounts for other players. I'll caveat though that a lot of that feels like an expansion feature set to me - and probably for launch, we should temper our expectations a bit.

As for travel, it's no secret that I really believe that travel should be required for crafters. Whether that's heading out to gather resources, or moving from place to place to ply your trade, or even finding that reclusive master to teach you advanced techniques, or piecing together fragments of ancient texts to learn secret recipes, travel should be just as important to crafters as it is to adventurers in my opinion. And how better to travel than on your trusty steed?


Now let's hear from everyone else! Saddle up and tell us how you think crafting, mounts, and travel should interact in Pantheon!
 

Barin999

Journeyman
Mounts in the game might be adventure or crafting related.
Since we're focusing on crafting, I'll be short on adventure mounts.
I hope there will be no flying mounts, other then the odd taxi service. Any other adventure mount could be earned, bought, or perhaps bred (although I don't see that happening in Pantheon). These mounts are mainly focused on increasing out of combat travel speed. Extra stats could be added, but it shouldn't be a given and when in combat those stats should be left out...since you're dismounting to engage in combat. Your mount won't be adding much to yourself hitting a mob. (but that's my thinking ofc).
However, mounts could also be used to tackle environmental challenges. So one might be needing certain mounts to cross certain regions. This where other mounts might fail. This would be very much into the style Pantheon is setting out to be played.

This brings me to the statement that mounts could be of temporary sorts. Mounts can be used from stable to stable or from settlement to settlement. Privately owned mounts could be a thing, but those might not be suited for travelling across all climates. This would also mean that, when you've traveled through the desert and are reaching open steppes, the camel mount is no longer your best option as mount. You'll want to leave it at the edge of the desert and saddle up a horse. One could even go as far as to say, certain mounts will only walk on X climate conditions.

One important note here would be to suggest that crafters should be able to make Glyphs for mounts as they will be able to for characters. This to combat the elements/climate's conditions. Although I would not expect to fully mitigate all influences the climates might have on the mount while it's been riden. I'ld rather see the above stated regional/rented mount situation. But for those players that actually own a mount, these Mount-Glyphs would be items of value and to be sought after.

Turning this towards crafting and mounts.
Yes, a wide range of crafters could add something to the stable/mount content. I hope they'll be creative enough to balance things out by unique recipes. It's risky if some are consumables and others are not. This could make it difficult to balance things out. So purely based on style of recipes some crafters might benefit from it more then others.
Items for mounts could be finetuned to the style of mount, the environment you're planning on traveling, the level of your character/mount and otherwise fluff items.

The basic things are already suggested so I won't copy them into another list. They make sense, we'll see if the dev's get that far into the mount design.
I would like to discuss more indept about how I see harvesting related mounts.
Again I'ld like to see temporary mounts. An example will hopefully give a better picture.
When I want to go mining, I'll look for a mount to rent that is "build" to carry or drag mining related resources. The appearance could be a oxe with a sledge behind them or really bulky carrying boxes on their backs. As I mine, the resources are automatically stored on that nearby mount.
The mount (to my opinion) could have a max amount of carrying capacity. Similar to a full inventory. So when it's full, you'll get messaged and extra resources might go into your own inventory...Stone however is heavy and your walking pace will be slowed dramatically. When the Stone-mount has reach max capacity. The oxe will travel to stable where you, the player, has rented the mount. The goods will be stored there and you'll be able to collect /transfer the content at your own time.

These mounts can not take damage or can otherwise be interacted with. When you get jumped by mobs or start fighting, you can sent your mount back to their stables with the content so far in your bags. The travelspeed of that harvesting mount will be your own travelspeed. This would be lower then traveling without harvesting mounts. So you can take it with you to some point, but it has it's obvious downsides. Harvesting mounts will not follow you in caves, or buildings and you'll get messaged to sent it back or such. If you die, the mount will not die nor will your resources become harvestable to other players. The harvesting mount will just make their way to their rentstation and it's content will be stored there.

Harvesting mounts could be: bulky stone and/or wood carriers, more slender 'weaker' fruits, roots carriers and water/fish related mounts. What this means is that you'll see a player with a harvesting mount and you'll recognise what kind of harvester that player is that that moment. That's fun and potentially a communicative incentive..this could be a economic opportunity or just "hey, where are you going to or where did you find ...." Since Pantheon's resources will be more spread out and less abundant then in other games.

The carriering capacity of the various mounts will differ in the sense that they'll all allow a 'max' amount of certain resources depending on their style. So an oxe will be able to carry 200 stones, a dunkey 200 wood, a lama 200 berries/roots, a feline or sorts 200 fish. BUT they are restricted to their own harvesting style. So oxes can't carry berries for example.
However, a combined harvesting mount is available but has it's time invested (faction, money, quests, recipes) requirements. That mount could carry different kind of resources but less of it.

So the mounts will not require you to guide them back to their rentstables, if you sent them away or when you die, they'll go there automatically and after X time they've reached that stable.

Crafters themselves could have their own style of mounts. Meaning: a fluff appearance that defines the craftingstyle of that crafter. Example: Camelmount owned by a blacksmith will display weaponry and a fluff hammer/anvil. A camelmount owned by a tailor would have rolls of fabric and bottles of dye. The camel mount of a chef would have vegetables and dried meats etc.
The benefit of these mounts could be;
1 free advertizement for that crafter
2 a pride thing for the crafter
3 faction related

I will go into the third one, as the others seem obvious. Within some districts or regions of the world it might be required to have a certain craft-related mount. The crafting riding this prestige mount is allowed acces to restricted areas, etc. So it might be a real goal to get that mount and ones you've earned it, riding it will open up certain things. So when other players view this player on that specific mount, they recognise : That crafter is able to access zone X which is off limits for all who do not have that mount. And as he's riding that mount, he'll be either going towards that area or coming back from it.
I find that really appealing.

Mounts could be racial related thightly linked to the environment that race has their startingzones. Crafters could be able to craft unique racial mount recipes. This could be items that allow certain animals or beings to be tethered and riden. If you do not have that racial recipe, those beings will remain off limits. So it could be a combination of: a) I need look for beings that can be found within starting zones, b) I have the unique products that allow for interaction with those beings, c) I need to be of that certain race (aka a ogre can't ride a butterfly and a gnome can't ride a rhino).

Merchant related mounts; At some point, I see an option to construct/earn a mount that carries a portable shop. This mount perhaps could be rented but can carry X load and will be required if that player wants to set up a shop. Without that mount, that is carrying all the required resources to set up the shop and more items to sell in that shop, the whole shop-thing is not possible. The travelspeed could be lower then a normal mount and might require some guarding elements (npc's, mount-armor or players).
 
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